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The odds in ALL the games are weighted heavily in the Casinos' favor. I think Choctaw now has craps but you have to play with cards instead of. The boat casino's may be a little tight, but i've always had a good time in Louisiana.. If you are just chomping at the bit , drive a bit farther & go to Shreveport .


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Apologies to "Adolf"; Mark's secret Vegas trip; Mandatory side bet; Craps.. Circa Las Vegas; Story from the poker home game; The Greatest Craps Guru in the.. Laying odds on the Don't; Throwing the dice too high; EZ Bust blackjack side bet;. Fire Bet on the Strip; Shreveport trip report; Macau and Singapore trip reports; ...


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Learn Dice Control from the Dominator June 1st - 3rd in Shreveport
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Without regard to a persons sentiment about the craps dealers it is best to.. It is my opinion that those odds are not as relevant as many believe over the short term... in Shreveport Louisiana sometimes likes to try his luck at the Craps tables.


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The Best Shreveport Casinos | USA Today
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Here we talk about all things gambling.
From poker to craps.
From blackjack to sports wagering.
From Las Vegas to Atlantic City.
click family's casino crawl; Our trip to San Manuel Casino; Caesars sports app screws up your ADT; Shooting from the Don't; South Point initially refuses to pay winning futures bet Proposed rules could hurt California card rooms; Dr.
Mike's trip to the Great Gift Wrap Up 2019; Stadium gaming comes to Harrah's Southern California; Money left on slot machines; Pai Gow Pai Kow in Macau; Side bet regret; Strip crawl follow-up Josh Shaw suspended for gambling on the NFL; Roulette strategy; Strip crawl; Eating vs.
Breeders' Cup follow-up; W-2G vs.
Super Three Card; Are California slot machines different?
Derek Stevens; Good and bad dealers; Are slots rigged to let new players win?
A slot machine scam; Mark cashes in a poker tournament; Clarification on Harrah's New Orleans' "required" side bets; Bets made on spouse's suggestion?
Having a relative who's a casino host; Tara gets her first royal; Eating at the tables; Skill-based Pac-Man; Earning credits through sports betting; Trip reports: Harrah's Southern California; Atlantic City; Casino de Montréal; Twin Lions Casino; FireKeepers; Gun Lake Casino; Wendover; Horseshoe Southern Indiana; Harrah's Cherokee; Hollywood Casino Toledo Apologies to "Adolf"; Mark's secret Vegas trip; Mandatory side bet; Craps evolution since the 1990s; Office Football Pool.
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Poker tournament guarantees; Match play; Trip reports: Tunica; Harrah's New Orleans; Aviator Casino; Lola's Underground at the Hippodrome; Harrah's North Kansas City; Atlantic City; Reno Upstate New York casinos; Dealer flips Mark off; Zombie Blackjack; Eldorado's acquisition of Caesars; Bubble craps; Asking for comped airfare; Tipping on a game you're not playing; Chip in the lammer hole; "Wrong shooter!
March Madness survivor pool?
Trip reports: Oklahoma casinos; Saratoga Casino Black Hawk; Akwesasne Mohawk Casino; Christchurch Casino; Monte Carlo; Harrah's Cherokee; Biloxi casinos 360 Vegas Vacation 8: Classic movies on casino TVs; Vegas Bun Boy gets another Dr.
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Mike gets impatient waiting in line at the cage; Gambler forges a free bet voucher; Will betting on a sports app affect your ADT?
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Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Gamblepalooza trip report; Craps system evaluations; Applied economics thesis?
Betting the "place side"; Touch screen solution; Trip reports: Harrah's Southern California; Excalibur; South Point Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Fading Mark's sports picks; Two full-blown casinos open in Arkansas; Throwing cash down on the table; Are free odds rated in craps?
Setting the dice to a 7; Caesars Rewards Visa card; Tournament Challenge results; Maybe don't leave while you're ahead?
Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Hot Hand craps side bet; More on MGM Springfield; "New dice!
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Mike's Las Vegas trip report; Tunica Roadhouse to close; Ever made a pit boss nervous?
Mike's biggest night at Harrah's Southern California; Place kickers in the NFL; Lucky Pairs; More on free odds at craps; Roulette anomalies; Pai Gow Poker questions Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Playing two table games simultaneously; FanDuel pays out on their mistake; The Pig Wheel; More on laying odds on the Don't; Celebrating if you're shooting from the Don't?
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Mike's Las Vegas trip report; Computer failure at Harrah's Southern California; Charles Oakley arrested for pinching; What's it take to become a medium or high roller?
Appreciating a win; Gambling in night clubs; More on gambling in Minnesota; Gambling in Minnesota: A Short History; Horseshoe Southern Indiana trip report; Colorado casinos; Push Ace High side bet in Face-Up Pai Gow Poker Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Mark's South Lake Tahoe trip report: Redeeming your celebration dinner directly at some Caesars-owned restaurants; Rebetting the Small or Tall as soon as it wins; Making correct payments at the craps table with 50-cent coins; Temporary wall insert at the craps table; Always slide your card!
Mike meets listeners; Ocean and Hard Rock open in Atlantic City; More theories on why there is no roulette and no craps in Minnesota; Any luck at the airport machines?
Gambling in clubs; Pai Gow display that helps dealers set their hands; Tier matching; More info on Montana "casinos"; How hard is it to check the Eye in the Sky?
Three drawings, one winner Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Winner of our Identify-the-Clip contest; A message from The Engineer; Down Under Blackjack; Leaning dice; Harrah's Southern California trip report; "Is Dr.
Mike's favorite craps bet; Working vs.
What's that clip at the end of each episode?
Are there craps advantage players?
Our wives are saints; Smartest and dumbest craps bets; "Muckleshoot!
One craps table for the rest of your life; Play at a crowded table or an empty table?
Mike's keno basic strategy; We lose the Zorkie Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Supreme court opens visit web page door for sports wagering; Preakness Stakes; Weird experience with an "advantage player"; LA to Vegas canceled; Professionals and gambling; Original name of Resorts World Catskills; Correct pronunciation of Muckleshoot; Tribal-state compacts; Non-gambling things to do in Las Vegas; Pai Gow Poker "insurance" bets; Money has a different meaning in a casino Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Our new Alexa Skill; Kentucky Derby; More from Gamblepalooza; More on Face Up Pai Gow Poker; More on Colorado betting limits; YouTube slot players; Tipping best asian online casinos for real money shooter?
London craps report; Singapore report; Oklahoma is getting "real" craps and roulette; What happens if you walk away in the middle of a roll?
Shoot-to-Win magnets; Dice calls; Big Buster Blackjack hit; ZorkFest: Charity craps tournament; Podcasters after Dark Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Gamblepalooza: Lunch at David Burke Prime; Race book; Cocktails at Centrale; Breakfast at Veranda Café; High-limit slot pull; Mohegan Sun; HighFlyer Zipline; Congratulations, Brian and Katie!
Licking the dice; "Everybody makes a five.
Mike's quick Vegas turnaround; STREAK blackjack side bet; More host advice; Resorts World Catskills trip report; Combining money to play at a high-limit table; The Masters; First time playing craps; Rolls versus no-rolls; Lola's Casino at the Hippodrome; Sigma Derby replaced at The D; Gamblepalooza Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Burn card exposure in blackjack UPDATE ; Dave's poker tournament; Face Up Pai Gow Poker; Using casino hosts; Fire Bet on the Strip; Shreveport trip report; Macau and Singapore trip best offline slot game for android Pontoon; Gamblepalooza; Sports-betting app suggestions; Biloxi trip report; Las Vegas trip report; Resorts World Catskills trip report; Non-smoking casinos on the Strip?
Taking a break after a bad losing streak; ZorkFest Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Dr.
Mike's second trip to Horseshoe Southern Indiana; Mark's mini casino crawl; Penn National pulls out of Hollywood Casino Jamul; Tunica trip report; Fielder's Choice craps side bet; Burn card exposure in blackjack; Going to the bathroom in the middle of a hot roll; Macau trip report; March Madness; ZorkFest Charity Craps Tournament Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Ed and the Hard 6; Vegas Travel Fanboy doesn't make a side bet; Mark gets 15x, Dr.
Mike gets 12x; Resorts World Catskills opens; "Printing error"; Beginners' craps etiquette; More on Celebration Dinners; Good places to play video poker for tier status improvement; "You've reached the maximum number of hard 6s for this shooter"; The spinning die; Thoughts on Westgate Las Vegas; Table minimums; Mistake at the sports book; "Self service" areas on the craps felt; Flooding at Horseshoe Southern Indiana Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; ZorkFest 2018; Quest for Rewards; No Summit this year; Bad experience at Wynn video poker bar; Reviewing the tape on a relatively low jackpot; Winning after starting with no money; Wendover Fun Flights; Tipping at Mississippi Stud Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Total Rewards Celebration Dinners; February Tier Credit Fever log into your Total Rewards account before you click the link or it won't work!
Preliminary Connecticut plans Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; You Can Bet on That's Boxing Day Casino Crawl: Augustine; Spotlight 29; Fantasy Springs; Agua Caliente; Morongo; Blackjack etiquette; Seneca Niagara trip report; High-roller dumb bets; Small bankroll, high limits; Oceans14SB; Collusion in the Treasure Island poker room; Bets working while you're away from the table Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Total Rewards devaluation: Official page; Eric Rosenthal's analysis; We're now on Spotify; Our Twitter got hacked; Viejas car fiasco; Supreme Court to rule on sports betting; Las Vegas during Christmas; Professor Slots; Tipping using "player control"; A good place to stay in Vegas when you have a young child; Ilani Casino best craps odds shreveport report; Blackjack in California card rooms; You Can Bet on That's Boxing Day Casino Crawl; Vegas Bun Boy's Holiday Special Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; When you're the big winner, at least buy everyone a meal; Great Gift Wrap Up 2017; Shoot to Win craps misunderstanding; 10:00 a.
Mike's dad recovers from pneumonia.
Mike's free play; Dealers Seda and Sherry from Harrah's Southern California; Dealer Envy on the Repeater bets; The best craps session of our lives; Craps meet-up at Mandalay Bay; The PreakNERDS Sigma Derby Tournament; Three Card Poker mispay at The D; Joan of Aces Nerd Summit in Vegas Trip Report; Vegas Nerds Slot Tournament; Skill-based gaming at Binion's; The Main Event; Poevdanny: The best craps dealer we've ever seen Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Here's comes The Summit; One of the most painful beats in NFL history; Total Rewards 2018 Tier Credit promotion; Elle wins a big one; 3 Card Poker stories; Pressing the Horn?
Shufflemaster's Playboy Bonus Blackjack; What's the vig based on for a buy bet?
How many simultaneous Don't bets does Mark like to have?
Pac-Man is coming to casinos; 3 Card Draw Poker; Syllabus for The Economics and Statistics of Casino Gambling; Hedging the Fire Bet; Plans for The Summit Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Our fifth anniversary; You don't always win a car when you win a car; How do racehorse owners make money?
Big slot win; Buying a big "A"; Mark's "no roll" at 360 Vegas Vacation 4; Mississippi Stud dealer mistake; Good blackjack on Anthem of the Seas; Once you get over the smell Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Our Hail-Mary craps bet; Foxwoods vs.
Mohegan Sun; How do casinos determine offers?
Free Bet Blackjack mistake; EZ Pai Gow Poker; Vdara; Best craps odds shreveport Vito's Aruba trip report; Gambling Scene: Hard Eight Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; False gambling beliefs; Rivers Casino report; Cheering when someone else loses; We need to face reality: 6:5 blackjack is here to stay; Tunica trip report; Coolers?
Strip casinos; Let the pit know when you've switched spots at the table; Nugget Casino Resort, Reno; Buying the 5 and 9; How to tell dealers they've made a mistake; More good news about TI; Problem gamblers; Where did the name You Can Bet on That come from?
Drink tickets still plentiful at Excalibur sports book; How superstitious are we at the craps table?
Players who shoot from the Don't; What happened to keno?
Getting comfortable with craps; Free play: Tables game chips vs.
Preakness results; Downtown Grand switches from 10x odds to 5x; People get stuck in Tropicana Atlantic City elevator; Robin Leach gets duped; The correct way to play soft 18 in blackjack; When you're banned, are you banned from all owner's properties?
Single 0 roulette in Atlantic City does not have the la partage rule; Big 6 name explained; Seneca updates its rewards; Teaming up to play; Strip blackjack: TI; Strip craps: The Cromwell; When is a roll not a roll?
Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Kentucky Derby; Player who left table gets money returned; Upcoming TV show The Collector; Will tipping help your rating?
Grand Sierra Resort report; Black Hawk, Colorado report; Getting kicked out of the casino; Do non-gambling trips to the casino count against your ADT?
Do we ever pass the dice?
Parx Casino report; Hippodrome Casino best craps odds shreveport Super Odds Chips; A bad beat first time at the track; World Series of Gin Rummy; Unofficial 360 Vegas Vacation 4 meet-ups Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; Is Mark related to riverboat gambler George Devol?
Barona Casino; Correcting the dealer's Pai Gow Poker hand; Playing at a craps table with minimums above your comfort level; Golden Dice Challenge comes to Monte Carlo Las Vegas; "Right" and "wrong" players winning together; When things go perfectly badly; Promo chips versus cash; Atlantic City trip report; MGM National Harbor trip report; Gambling Scene: Rain Man Purchase through Amazon; Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; "Meeting" a listener; Win It All on Netflix; VIP Preferred; Parlays in craps; Dr.
Mike's trip to MGM National Harbor; Asking for a table's limits to be lowered; SNAFU at Stratosphere; Casino War at The Cromwell; American Casino Guide; Las Vegas Advisor; Big video poker win; Any 7; Hedging the Fire Bet Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; March Madness so far; Annoying craps player; More on casino credit; Rolling chips; More information?
Dealer mistakes; What to expect your first time in a poker room; Gambling Scene: I Love You, Man Call our Voicemail Hotline: 951-292-4377; The Duck Parade; Did we hit our first royal?
Bill introduced that would reduce Nevada's gambling age to 18; Rivers Casino in Schenectady opens; Dealer mistakes in your favor; 7 Cedars trip report; Getting the airline to reimburse your gambling losses; vpFREE2; Flamingo sports book; Caesars Atlantic City trip report; Parx Casino trip report; Borgata going downhill?
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Table Games - A letter I sent to Boyd executives about recent blackjack rule changes | Vegas Message Board
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Someone who wants to play the game, but for whatever reasons, whether it be table mins, other players intimidating them, or just simply being intimidated by the game itself, 2-3 dollar mins on these machines would only benefit the casino.
Ofcourse, slot machines in the same space generate higher percentage of house edge, I believe bubble craps machines would surely pay for themselves just as any other electronic game in the casino.
And no crew, big savings for a casino.
The only maintenance is they will change out the dice, clean or replace the inside glass bubble it gets marked and the green felt on the bottom gets worn out.
I appreciate the helpful info from everybody.
I just played bubble crapsjust found one in Bossier city at Margaritaville and another at El Dorado in Shreveport.
It seems that the numbers were rolling exactly like on the live table but much quicker.
I am not much of a believer in dice influence anyway, although there are probably a few gifted people in this world this can do it successfully.
Just like there are people who can juggle dishes or snakes in the same. best casino buffet kansas city with at once, but only a very few.
One thing that I noticed were the number of newby's to the game of craps that were learning how to play and enjoying it.
IMO, These machines are going to bring a lot of new players into the craps world that may have never got the best craps odds shreveport to learn on a live table.
There were about 3 to 1 women players compared to men.
The casino mafia is bound to like an larger overall player population.
Oh yea, it helped that some guy rolled pushed the button for about 50 rolls before he 7 out.
This is one these 'don't knock it till you try it' things.
Yes, and they would be completely wrong.
It's not a slot machine, there are no magnets and its no different than a real craps table in terms of odds and payouts.
Yes, and they would be check this out wrong.
It's not a slot machine, there are no more info and its no different than a real craps table in terms of odds and payouts.
Especially for people who play long stretches.
My only suggestion for any of the seasoned craps players here is don't knock it before you give it a try.
I will never replace a real table, but if you aren't convinced the rest of the world can actually influence dice enough to make a difference over the long haul, bubble craps might be a valid alternative where live tables aren't available.
Thing is, I believe as more and more casinos get live tables, bubble craps machines will get more and more like slot machine payouts.
They will lower odds and not offer more than one or two times odds.
Im hoping that doesn't happen.
In reality, the cost to operate a bubble craps should be a fraction of what it costs the casino to operate a regular table.
No boxmen, no stick men, no base dealers, no pit supervisor.
You're talking a lot of dough in salary and benefits as compared to the cost of a bubble machine and maintenance.
The big if is the ability to turn regular table players into bubble players.
I'm seeing a lot of them in Vegas who are trying the bubble craps machine.
Less waiting, comfortable seating, tracking.
It has a slot machine feel even though it's nothing of the best casino near fl />The old timers might not buy into it but they will eventually become a dying breed as the years go on.
I see bubble craps as a game that will stick around but never replace the table in totality.
A lot of people at tables hate other players suggesting things, saying things like, well, I didn't do well for me, but I sure as hec made you a nice best craps odds shreveport />Who needs someone else watching what I do at a table.
Its bad enough the pit and crew watch you like a hawk when you start winning 4 figures, who needs 11 other players eyeing your stack also, not to mention the loafers standing so close sometimes you can smell their breath on your neck, trying to see how much youre winning.
I sit, If I want to, I put my old players card upside down over my bank, I use my arms to cover my screen to all the nosy bastards who seem to inch up on you when you play, at any gameand if someone gets too close to me, I back up my stool, stand up, stretch out, make them move away.
I like my privacy when I gamble.
I like the no comments, and I mind it less if a negative player is yelling for a seven than at a live table.
Not sure why, seems less personal, like hes yelling at the bubble, not me when Im shooting.
Im a big guy, and people don't try to intimidate me,but people will always be people.
It's a nice game to avoid those players who don't like the way you are playing and will comment on it.
Personally I don't give a wit how someone plays and if they play the don't or bet against the shooter.
Bubble craps gives you some anonymity.
I also don't like people standing so close to me at a table.
There's nothing worse than chatty people whose real motive is they don't like the way you are playing and say so in a way that's not rude.
It's like "mind your own business" and play the way you want but don't dare tell me "I'm betting against the table".
I'm there to enjoy the game and try and win, not make friends with a 300 lb.
Ill probably invest a few pennies to see if anything is happening with the bubble.
Real craps tables-did not keep solid track, but can say that the few trips I took to philly, Bethlehem, AC, chester, Grantville, valley forge, totaled, I didn't lose more than 1000 dollars combined, and Im certain the figure is more like 500 total loss.
Bubble craps at aqueduct- been there 21 times this year so far that I played.
Won 14 out of the 21 times.
The losses combined equal less than 1600.
My wins, well, I don't show wins if they are large, even though this is all fiction, ya never know.
Ive posted some of the small wins Ive had, 300-1000 or so, I posted the computer readouts of the rolls.
Anyone who knows this game can see the way Im betting and figure out where I am.
I do have some pictures stored of the machine hitting 12 points in a row, with numbers popping so often it will make you cry.
I wont post the pics here.
Never know whos watching.
Noone here can offer proof.
Only claim they are the best at what they do.
Me, Best craps odds shreveport got no talent at craps, other than it seems winning.
I win a lot.
Now that warm weather is here, I doubt Id be going as often even though Im tempted.
If I have 15 straight losses, I wont be down this year.
If I have 20 straight losses, I wont be down this year.
Its tricky getting a picture exactly when the hard ways come in and I bet on it because of the count, but in those 2 incredible rolls I was on, I hit 2 hardways in a row on high counts, one for 600, one for 800.
On one roll, the longest one, I hit 2 more hardways, one for 140, one for 300.
I don't usually play hardways, only bubble craps when count is high.
We were invited to Borgata to go with a group of people, but I cant see spending 240 dollars a night for a room, so we will probably either stat at caesars or just decline.
This will most likely be my only trip to a live casino all summer.
Hi Liman, Finally went to the Big A to try my fate with the automated bubble craps.
Watched for a while and jumped in playing the pass and two comes with double odds.
It was give and take but I never really felt I was in the flow of the game.
One of the dice in the bubble bouncing around was completly blank where the two was supposed to register Played about 15 minutes and was down 300 bucks before I knew it.
Even when the point was made, there was no outward recognition of joy as the guy next to me https://allo-hebergeur.com/best/best-in-slot-mw-monk.html playing Sicbo and could care less.
There was a sense of "aloofness" with people buried into their terminals awaiting that incessant 15 second count down that left no time for excessive fan fare.
The camaraderie one encounters with the beloved characters who encircle a crap table was gone and sorely missed to boot.
Thanks again Liman for your help, but as they say "Its hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
I left after 30 minutes, like they are giving away free best craps odds shreveport />I don't care about the other players at a craps table.
Im focused on my betting, money management, couldn't care less whats happening around me, I stay alert, but Im there to win, not make friends.
If the guy next to me wants to fist bump me, its ok with me as long as Im up to date and focused on my bets and the action.
If the guy next to me is betting don't and called me a dickhead for hitting a 6 and killing his bankroll, its ok with me also.
I haven't noticed at front carousel near escalators, although I don't stare at the dice, but I have noticed they are taking on agreen tint from the felt.
Anything that may alter the dice is only to our favor.
I hope they never replace anything.
Good luck in the future.
What a waste of time, the girls are still there tonight.
I made them valet park so they don't have to walk to the car.
I got out, got some fresh air.
Hey Liman, I guess I was playing at the front bubble crap machine which was pretty empty as I was there around 10:30 AM on Thursday.
More people were watching than actually playing as they were probably put off by the high "tariff" levied.
I guess I gotta "get with the program" if I intend to participate in the future which looks like it will become the only game in town.
Second time around is always a charm.
Good luck to all!!!!
Now I notice sicbo in the center is 10 dollar min.
Im dropping off my wife to meet her friends soon, I think I might see if the front carousel is open.
I must look at the 2 to see if its faded.
My vision is pretty poor so they all look faded to me.
I wasn't going to play, but checked out the dice, didn't notice a two faded, but I don't know which die I saw the few times I looked.
I took out a 100 dollar bill, slid it in.
This is the second time Ive seen it happen on this machine.
A casino rep came over, and hit a reset and the dice rerolled.
Its like a no roll, dice on chips or dice off table.
But there was a problem.
The dice looked like the outcome was 11.
I wasn't on yet, not that I was going to bet much, but I had to wait for him to open my terminal, whatever the reason.
I might have hit the screen too hard and it "tilts" One of the 2 other men playing, had a fit.
He started cursing at the casino staff, loud, claiming if he knew they were going to reset to reroll, he wanted to pull his money off.
A valid point, if someone throws the dice off the table, a lot of people take down bets.
He cursed and made 2 different casino personel get a manager until he said f.
My wife heard him and she was 100 feet away at a slot.
Me, having no intention on playing today, just went for the ride, as I was the driver, looked over the hardways, 8 was at 47, so on went 10 bucks, a couple of 7 outs and soft 8 later, up near 60, I hit for 15 dollars.
I then went with hard 4 whose count was up near 75, lost it all back, then another 40, so I had enough.
We went out to lunch, and ran over to the boardwalk where there was an arts and crafts fair.
Hey Liman, I guess I was playing at the front bubble crap machine which was pretty empty as I was there around 10:30 AM on Thursday.
More people were watching than actually playing as they were probably put off by the high "tariff" levied.
I guess I gotta "get with the program" if I intend to participate in the future which looks like it will become the only game in town.
Second time around is always a charm.
Good luck to all!!!!
The '12' gets you every once in awhile but probably not hurt you too bad.
The '12' gets you every once in awhile but probably not hurt you too bad.
I tried it on 'shoot to win'it wasn't allowed.
You can only bet ' pass' or 'don' t pass' but not both at once.
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